Patrick O’Dell, the photographer and videographer behind the iconic Epicly Later’d series, recently showcased his new book, Big River, in NYC. This book chronicles his DIY canoe trip down the Mississippi with Heath Kirchart and Kynan Tait. This comes alongside news of the bankruptcy of VICE, the media company that hosted Epicly Later’d, sparking a look back at O’Dell’s influential work. His unique approach to documenting skateboarders and other underground figures in the early internet era has solidified his place as a key voice in skate culture. We got the chance to speak with Pat about his experiences, past and present.
Patrick O'Dell canoeing down the Mississippi River with his dog.
Canoeing the Mississippi: A DIY Challenge
Your recent canoe trip down the Mississippi sounds like quite an adventure. Were there moments when you feared for your life?
The trip started with a near-disaster on day one. Navigating the river locks, I went the wrong way, almost getting sucked into a dangerous area. As I paddled against the current, a storm hit, and my canoe began to sink. I had to throw all my gear, even my dog, to Kynan’s boat, while bailing water and hanging onto the side of the lock, fearing the boat would sink. A little later, a barge was bearing down on us, and Kynan’s motor wouldn’t start. We barely managed to escape. It was a harsh reminder of how quickly things can go wrong when you’re unprepared.
That sounds intense! What was Heath Kirchart’s role in the adventure?
Heath is always up for a challenge. While in New York, he suggested we race up the stairs of the Empire State Building, but we couldn’t do it that day. He’s constantly finding new ways to compete. Even during skate sessions, he’s always making bets.
A photo from Patrick O'Dell's "Big River" book featuring a tranquil river scene.
How long was the canoe trip?
It lasted over a month, and it felt like being in a Huckleberry Finn story. A raft seemed like the best way to experience the Mississippi.
How did the group dynamic play out?
We all had different goals. My focus was on photography. Heath turned it into an exercise challenge, always rowing. Kynan mostly enjoyed the ride, drinking whiskey and taking photos.
Did the experience impact your mental or physical state?
Not really. We just adapted to problem-solving daily. Finding gas, food, and water became the routine. At times, each of us felt like we were over it. I even felt bad since it was my idea. However, when I got home, I felt strangely depressed, missing the adventure. It turned out we all felt the same, which we later learned is common after big challenges like the Appalachian Trail.
Another photo from Patrick O'Dell's "Big River" book, showing Heath Kirchart rowing a canoe.
Skateboarding and Beyond
What would you say to skaters who might question the value of a trip like this?
It’s similar to skateboarding in many ways. In team sports, a mistake affects the whole team, but in skating, if you can’t land a trick, no one cares. It’s all about setting personal goals, like hiking Half Dome, which is like a kickflip up a curb.
Why don’t we see more skate footage of you online?
I’ve always preferred to be behind the camera. I’ve filmed myself skating before, but I always feel embarrassed at how I look on the board and how it doesn’t match the image in my head. Now I’d rather document my kids skating.
A photo from Patrick O'Dell's "Big River" book showing a scenic river landscape.
The Future of Epicly Later’d
With VICE’s bankruptcy, what does that mean for Epicly Later’d?
I’m trying to get my original tapes back. VICE has them all and I don’t want them to end up in a landfill. There was a whole room dedicated to Epicly Later’d, filled with tapes. I assumed all the episodes would stay online forever, but they kept getting shortened or taken down. Even our Arto Saari episode is missing.
If Jenkem offered you $10,000 to revive Epicly Later’d, would you be interested?
I would be, but I’m not sure I could call it Epicly Later’d due to legal issues. My contract stipulated that I couldn’t be fired from the show, but also that I couldn’t take the show elsewhere.
What inspired Epicly Later’d in the first place?
Louis Theroux’s Weird Weekends was a major inspiration. I loved how he brought his camera to unique subcultures. I wanted to do the same with skaters. It’s funny to see how those topics have evolved into reality TV, but Weird Weekends was groundbreaking at the time.
A still from the Neckface episode of Epicly Later'd, showcasing a subject characteristic of the show's focus on unique personalities.
The early Epicly Later’d episodes had a raw, DIY feel, while the later ones were more polished. Which style do you prefer?
I preferred the gritty style then, but now as a viewer, I prefer the Heath Kirchart episode over the Dustin Dollin one. Originally, the show was about entering someone’s space and having a real conversation.
When we went to television, things changed. On the first shoot, with Bam Margera in Barcelona, we had a huge crew with sound and release people. They were constantly saying “no” to locations, so we ended up shooting at the VICE office. The editing process also became more restrictive, with strict time limits for each episode, unlike the freedom of the web.
Were you ever hesitant to put yourself out there as the host?
I was worried at first, but you just have to block it out. I did the intros because they forced me, and they even gave me extra money to do them, knowing I was going to try to get out of it.
A behind-the-scenes image of the camera setup for Epicly Later'd.
Did VICE provide a budget for the early episodes?
No, it was all DIY. I used my backpack, camera, and a couple of mics. That meant cutting corners, resulting in poorly produced content at times. It was also shot with 15-year-old equipment. I haven’t watched them since then because I’m afraid it’ll shatter my memory of them being amazing.
Do you think it would be harder to do Epicly Later’d with today’s younger skaters?
I don’t know. Back then, I noticed skaters were always comfortable on camera. Other artists were more guarded, but skaters would talk freely. They just didn’t care, and some, like Jason Dill, thrived on it.
What about someone like Kader or Tyshawn?
They’re great, but I prefer interviewing older subjects with more life experience. Interviews with people in the middle of their careers can be cautionary tales. I interviewed one person who was taking everything for granted, and it was obvious they were going to regret it.
A photo featuring the Baker skate crew, known for their unique personalities, and previously featured on Epicly Later'd.
Can you name someone specific?
I don’t want to make fun of anyone. It’s like an E True Hollywood Story. I see people blowing it, not caring, and it reminds me of my own past.
Can you give an example of your past behavior?
When I worked for Thrasher, I was living in New York, drinking, and doing drugs. I wasn’t hustling hard enough. I was just going out all night and sleeping all day. I wasn’t answering calls from my bosses. I should have quit drinking, moved to LA, and focused on my work. I’ve come to realize that it’s important to use your time wisely.
Was your substance use experimental or a problem?
I had a problem, mainly with alcohol. I don’t drink anymore.
A still from the Antwuan Dixon episode of Epicly Later'd, a revealing look into the skater's life.
I heard Antwuan Dixon was upset about his episode?
He might have been. At the time, he didn’t consider how people would react to it. It made him a cult figure, like GG Allin, who doesn’t play by the rules. There was even more stuff that we took out for him.
I tried to tell the truth, but some people just don’t like what they see. We never intended to make anyone look bad. Antwuan and I are cool now, and he has even talked about doing a follow-up episode.
Why do skaters excel at pushing themselves physically, but struggle with practical aspects of life?
Probably because it’s not fun. There’s a lot of addiction in skating, and skaters tend to live in the moment. Doing taxes or math just isn’t in our DNA.
Patrick O'Dell with his dog, a symbol of the personal side of the documentarian.
Interview by: Ian Michna
Intro by: Wilson Lucas
Photos Courtesy of: Patrick O’Dell and Kynan Tait
